Comments on: Taming the Indian PhD High Horse? http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/ Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:21:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Indian Graduate Admission based on GRE? « nOnoscience http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7171 Indian Graduate Admission based on GRE? « nOnoscience Sat, 10 May 2008 03:48:55 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7171 [...] Based on some ten years of teaching and as many years as student in four different institutes of varying academic standing and pursuit and the associated observations, I am of the opinion that the GATE, if not totally at least to a large extent, is not serving its purpose. [...] [...] Based on some ten years of teaching and as many years as student in four different institutes of varying academic standing and pursuit and the associated observations, I am of the opinion that the GATE, if not totally at least to a large extent, is not serving its purpose. [...]

]]> By: anon http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7170 anon Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:38:32 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7170 Dr Arunn, As an undergraduate student, I wish to bring up another point. Apart from higher funding for research, and more opportunities, I believe that other factors can also play an important role. For example, in my opinion, the liberal cultural system, the absence of restrictive rules, and strong freedoms that an individual enjoys can also play a role in influencing a students decision. Dr Arunn,

As an undergraduate student, I wish to bring up another point. Apart from higher funding for research, and more opportunities, I believe that other factors can also play an important role.

For example, in my opinion, the liberal cultural system, the absence of restrictive rules, and strong freedoms that an individual enjoys can also play a role in influencing a students decision.

]]> By: Arunn http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7169 Arunn Wed, 15 Aug 2007 06:48:48 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7169 Jeyarama Ananta: thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. On a general note, observing the comments of some of us here and elsewhere about this issue, I cannot but appreciate the sagacity and foresight of some of the Indian UG students, while deciding on their higher educational pursuit. Jeyarama Ananta: thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

On a general note, observing the comments of some of us here and elsewhere about this issue, I cannot but appreciate the sagacity and foresight of some of the Indian UG students, while deciding on their higher educational pursuit.

]]> By: Jeyarama S Ananta http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7168 Jeyarama S Ananta Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:44:06 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7168 Hello Dr.Arunn I fully concur with the reasons i saw in your Cartoon for choosing abroad.One more thing i observed was there are not enough institutions which do real research out there which makes some of us (even with a high GATE, CSIR-JRF qualifiaction)to work in a field which is not their passion. Finally, inter-disciplinary research is not a common thing out there too. Hello Dr.Arunn
I fully concur with the reasons i saw in your Cartoon for choosing abroad.One more thing i observed was there are not enough institutions which do real research out there which makes some of us (even with a high GATE, CSIR-JRF qualifiaction)to work in a field which is not their passion. Finally, inter-disciplinary research is not a common thing out there too.

]]> By: prasad http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7166 prasad Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:30:21 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7166 Hi Arunn, I know of some (4) research scholars (MS / PhD) who are happy to work for an infosys, or an IBM, after doing MS/PhD, at a "coding" type back end job in Bangalore, simply because there are no good research jobs for them. The very brilliant get into faculty positions at IIT's, and the few very good research centers. The rest do software jobs, which have no "research" involved!!! And when they compare (not always the right thing to do, but human!) their status to a guy, they think was less talented than them, but is in the US, and who is working for a Rolls-Royce/GE research center, nothing but frustration overcomes them! Hi Arunn,

I know of some (4) research scholars (MS / PhD) who are happy to work for an infosys, or an IBM, after doing MS/PhD, at a “coding” type back end job in Bangalore, simply because there are no good research jobs for them. The very brilliant get into faculty positions at IIT’s, and the few very good research centers. The rest do software jobs, which have no “research” involved!!! And when they compare (not always the right thing to do, but human!) their status to a guy, they think was less talented than them, but is in the US, and who is working for a Rolls-Royce/GE research center, nothing but frustration overcomes them!

]]> By: Arunn http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7165 Arunn Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:41:52 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7165 jagan: i obtained my phd in the US because i didn't clear GATE with enough percentile; and when i was actually called for a phd interview, despite this, in one of the premier institutes of India, I chickened out and never attended the interview. satya and I (and Prof. Dutta) are trying to address the issue of why such students who seem to be talented enough for a phd in the US are not preferring Indian premier institutes... prasad: i am yet to hear of a phd student from my lab or for that matter from ME dept. of our institute in search of a job. Whether the job that she has is a "suitable" one or not i don't know - i don't think a phd degree is meant for "training" one for a particular job. On the other hand, I do agree that an economically prosperous country such as the USA will perhaps always have people flocking it for available opportunities. Only the proportion of the exodus makes one wonder if there is more to it than mere opportunities... (i don't have hard statistics yet from say, our placement cell, to substantiate more of my points - which I shall write later) jagan: i obtained my phd in the US because i didn’t clear GATE with enough percentile; and when i was actually called for a phd interview, despite this, in one of the premier institutes of India, I chickened out and never attended the interview.

satya and I (and Prof. Dutta) are trying to address the issue of why such students who seem to be talented enough for a phd in the US are not preferring Indian premier institutes…

prasad: i am yet to hear of a phd student from my lab or for that matter from ME dept. of our institute in search of a job. Whether the job that she has is a “suitable” one or not i don’t know – i don’t think a phd degree is meant for “training” one for a particular job.

On the other hand, I do agree that an economically prosperous country such as the USA will perhaps always have people flocking it for available opportunities. Only the proportion of the exodus makes one wonder if there is more to it than mere opportunities…

(i don’t have hard statistics yet from say, our placement cell, to substantiate more of my points – which I shall write later)

]]> By: prasad http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7164 prasad Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:24:05 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7164 Hi Arunn, I believe the simple reason that I would quote is that, after doing a PhD, in India, what are the job prospects for a student, who is really bright? What is the renumeration, and the quality of work that one may get? Certainly both of these factors are better in the US, aren't they? Lets look at the sheer number of opportunities, assuming the job is equally satisfying in India and US. Universities : US : 3,000 for 3 million people. India : 300 for 1 billion people. Research centers US: A very high number unknown to me, every company I can think of has some sort of research operation here, India : (in our field, i.e. mechanical): GE, Shell, GM, basically 1% or less of the number in the US!! The number of opportunities are much less in India. Hi Arunn,

I believe the simple reason that I would quote is that, after doing a PhD, in India, what are the job prospects for a student, who is really bright? What is the renumeration, and the quality of work that one may get? Certainly both of these factors are better in the US, aren’t they?

Lets look at the sheer number of opportunities, assuming the job is equally satisfying in India and US.
Universities : US : 3,000 for 3 million people. India : 300 for 1 billion people.
Research centers US: A very high number unknown to me, every company I can think of has some sort of research operation here,
India : (in our field, i.e. mechanical): GE, Shell, GM, basically 1% or less of the number in the US!!

The number of opportunities are much less in India.

]]> By: satya http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7163 satya Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:56:18 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7163 I have heard people say that when I myself went to pursue my Ph.D. abroad, how can I complain that undergraduates in India aren't willing to stay back to do their Ph.D.s with me. Well, what I have to say now, I wouldn't have said a few years back, but what the heck, I am better now than the faculty I had as a student, and I am better than many of the faculty in many universities abroad! (Now that I am a faculty here, what's the need for anyone to go abroad!!!) We need to wait for facts to speak for themselves, and wait longer for those who refuse to listen to the facts speak to be forced to listen some day. As a rule, undergrads don't look for facts, me included when I was a UG. This also applies to undergrads in the US -- it's just that they blindly believe that US universities ought to be the best! I just tried to find out from my new MS student coming from a private engg. college on what his classmates are doing, and out of 60 odd students, only 2 are going to IIT, the other to M.Tech., but a handful to universities in US and UK. Upon questioning, he immediately says many people are scared of writing GATE! There may be a point in that we are too obsessed with the student having to know a lot before coming in rather than before leaving! I have heard people say that when I myself went to pursue my Ph.D. abroad, how can I complain that undergraduates in India aren’t willing to stay back to do their Ph.D.s with me. Well, what I have to say now, I wouldn’t have said a few years back, but what the heck, I am better now than the faculty I had as a student, and I am better than many of the faculty in many universities abroad! (Now that I am a faculty here, what’s the need for anyone to go abroad!!!) We need to wait for facts to speak for themselves, and wait longer for those who refuse to listen to the facts speak to be forced to listen some day. As a rule, undergrads don’t look for facts, me included when I was a UG. This also applies to undergrads in the US — it’s just that they blindly believe that US universities ought to be the best! I just tried to find out from my new MS student coming from a private engg. college on what his classmates are doing, and out of 60 odd students, only 2 are going to IIT, the other to M.Tech., but a handful to universities in US and UK. Upon questioning, he immediately says many people are scared of writing GATE! There may be a point in that we are too obsessed with the student having to know a lot before coming in rather than before leaving!

]]> By: jagan http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7162 jagan Sun, 05 Aug 2007 07:21:42 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7162 it may be the faculty perspective. over 50% of my faculty having a U.S degree, it doesn't mean that they cant clear so called tough interview. there are some reasons which no one of us ready to accept in public. it may be the faculty perspective. over 50% of my faculty having a U.S degree, it doesn’t mean that they cant clear so called tough interview. there are some reasons which no one of us ready to accept in public.

]]> By: TTN http://unrulednotebook.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7161 TTN Sun, 05 Aug 2007 05:35:08 +0000 http://unrulednotebook.wordpress.com/2007/08/04/taming-the-indian-phd-high-horse/#comment-7161 Don't blame the system; it is still the mindset; "WEST IS BEST" JUST THINK OF THIS: Do iits welcome faculty applicants from US and India impartially? Isn't there a bias in favor of the 'foreign returned'? Yes, there are many things we can do better in our academic system. But that is more excuse than reason for the west-seekers. Don’t blame the system; it is still the mindset; “WEST IS BEST” JUST THINK OF THIS: Do iits welcome faculty applicants from US and India impartially? Isn’t there a bias in favor of the ‘foreign returned’?
Yes, there are many things we can do better in our academic system. But that is more excuse than reason for the west-seekers.

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